Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
scott@scottlongonline.com
I've always been reticent to speak on the subject of steroids in sports here, considering that my partner at this site, Will Carroll, was the most knowledgeable person I had read on the subject. Another reason I've not weighed in is that I don't look at the issue as being that important. Sure, some guys hit more homeruns than they should have. And yes, it has caused some problems with the record books. Ultimately, though, put me in the small group of people who doesn't think it's that big of a deal.
The LA Times is reporting in a story by Lance Pugmire that Jason Grimsley implicated Roger Clemens as using performance enhancing drugs. The rumors have been out there for awhile and considering Clemens' off the charts stats at an age when most players are contemplating old-timers exhibitions, it would seem he deserved similar scrutiny to Barry Bonds. Somehow hitting a ball farther is seen as something that is aided by drugs, though, while throwing a ball hard can only be because of natural ability.
Being a great athlete is about trying to get an edge over your opponent. If it means working out a little harder or studying film a little more, the goal is to be the best you can be. In a world (MLB up until 2005) where there was no drug testing, I'm sure I would have done whatever it takes to succeed, if I was in that position. Just like how players were popping amphetamines like candy during the 60's and 70's, players over the past 10 years were attempting to not get left behind.
Call me morally bankrupt, but could it be that the true team players were the one's that were willing to seek any edge possible? These athletes weighed future health risks versus increased riches from improved results on the field and went with let's make a deal with the devil. For those of you that have never made a deal with the devil, bravo, as you have a clean conscience. For those of us who have sold our souls for something we wanted, well we can tell you that it can come with some regrets, but the devilishly action shouldn't be routinely dismissed as a complete negative. Life isn't as simple as that.
I don't know if Roger Clemens is guilty of the allegations being thrown his way, but I will admit that I wouldn't mind if it grazed him, like a purpose pitch thrown by the Rocket himself. Clemens has always been a red-ass and I think it's kind of unfair that he has been exalted by so many, when Bonds is seen as a pariah. They have had the 2 greatest careers of anyone during my lifetime and if they used or not, they are still slam-dunk Hall of Famers.
Ty Cobb was an a-hole, Pete Rose was/is a dick, and Bob Gibson was a jerk. I can name off a lot of great players who were not role models. I'm guessing that most of them used any edge they could get their grubby fingers on and I respect them for it.
Most would point to Ken Griffey Jr. as someone who has stayed away from chemical enhancements and most praise him for it. I would argue that this is a guy with incredible physical tools who coasted through the off-seasons and didn't try to use the means out there to keep his body from breaking down. Hey, it's his right, but if I was a fan of the Reds, I would have wished that he would have considered using some kind of supplements, illegal or not that might have kept him off the disabled list and if nothing else, helped recover more quickly from his ailments. I don't know if it would have made a difference for him, but if I was a GM, I would want to fill my team with guys who were driven to be the best they could be.
I know this is blasphemy to many, but I don't look down upon players who have used steroids or human growth hormone. There have hardly been any medical studies on the long-term effects of these drugs and my guess is that if they are not abused (unlike many have done in the body building and professional wrestling fields), steroids and HGH aren't going to cost you too much time on this earth. I have no medical credentials, so let me stress that I'm just a guy pontificating on a blog, but it is my intuition.
I've never used steroids or human growth hormones, but I know from the little experience I have had using other illegal drugs that the "reefer madness" view that is propogated is generally overblown. If you use too much of pretty much any drug be it nicotine, alcohol, prescription drugs, caffiene, or even sugar, you will probably feel some adverse effects. Sorry kids, but if you are looking for the "Just Say No" view, I would go to your favorite search engine and try to find it there.
Until we have a drug test that isn't merely cosmetic, the issue will continue to be there. Baseball has gotten a bum rap, with the game being crucified for not being more vigilant in trying to wipe it out. I have a hard time believing that the NFL and the NBA don't have just as many users of these products, especially considering that they are games where physical strength and injury recovery are a far greater ingredient for success.
If I had a vote, Rafael Palmiero and Mark McGwire would be first ballot Hall of Famers, as their credentials completely warrant it. They brought excitement and excellence to the sport and as a fan, I'm not going to turn my back on their stats just because they might have been "artificially" inflated in some people's eyes. I'm of the belief that these things tend to even themselves out and my guess is that a lot of pitchers were using their own substances to combat them.
I'm a believer in measuring players versus their contemporaries, more than just looking at the all-time stats. The Zeitgeist of the past 15 years, if you like it or not, was use whatever was out there to make you better or risk getting left behind. I would doubt that over the next 15 years, it will be much different. Not something you will likely read or hear in the mainstream media, but then they are beholden to their viewers, advertisers, and sports leagues they do business with. Hopefully someday, I can become beholden myself, but until thejuiceblog starts making me some money, I'm just going to stick to throwing out what's in my brain and seeing where it might stick.
Maybe it's because my sports news sphere has grown in the past year or so, but I feel like the attitude towards steroids has shifted. I saw an article on Yahoo Sports a couple weeks ago that discussed what exactly a "steroid" was, and why injecting yourself with testosterone is bad, but B-12 is okay. Why HGH is bad because it creates an unfair advantage, but some players shell out thousands of dollars to recuperate in hyperbolic chambers. There is a latent hypocricy among those who accuse of cheating.
There's hypocricy in the accusing and in the accusers. The mainstream media manages to destroy the careers of a handful of baseball players, but steroid stories in their beloved football go with just casual notice.
What it comes down to, as a fan, is what remains entertaining. The media has tried to ruin my vision of the perfect summer of 1998, with the mighty Yankees and McGwire-Sosa making it fun to watch baseball again. They've tried to ruin memories of the 2002 world series and the Bonds home run that made Tim Salmon exclaim "that's the furthest ball I've ever seen hit." They can't take those memories away from me; they can't take my favorite game away from me.
Thanks for your honest words, I hope I've adequately added to your thoughts.
Go baseball.
The elephant in the room here (IMO) is that no one knows how much (if at all) steroids actually help a baseball player play ball better. Steroids certainly did not help Jose C recover from his workouts---he averaged less than 120 games a year over his career. Alex Sanchez hasn't made a lot of all-star teams has he??
The other thorny issue here is this: if steroids are cheating since they artificially improve performance (maybe), why isn't lasik eye surgery cheating??
TJ Surgery? How exactly is a pitcher having surgery to repair the ravages of abuse different from Roger Clemens (possibly) using PED's to reduce the ravages of time??
There are hundreds of pertinent questions not being asked, and we know that the sports' media is not the body to start asking them.
I agree with your stance, although I do agree with the harsh penalties for steroid use. I wish it was in place years ago, but without testing, I don't blame any of the athletes for trying it.
Which credentials are those? His 1600 hits?
Big Mac was a one-dimensional hack. He was basically Dave Kingman.
Mark McGwire is to Dave Kingman as Tim Raines is to Omar Moreno.
He really doesn't. He just wasn't that good.
He had no glove. Six career triples. Seriously, he was a joke.
On the numbers, 10th all time in slugging, 7th in homers, top 75 in OB%, 1200 runs, 1400 RBI are pretty good work in 6200 AB's.
Who f***ing cares how many triples he had??
You said he was basically Dave Kingman (.302 OB%), if Mcgwire had that ob% he would have made 700 more outs than he did.
Outs are bad, Mark didn't make many. He drove in and scored many, many runs which if memory serves is the point of an offensive player.
"Am I the only one that thinks flat-out that Mark McGwire is not a Hall of Famer?
"It would be easy to say that Mark McGwire is not a Hall of Fame player because of the questions about steroid use. I don't even need to consider that issue. Just look at his statistics. He played 16 seasons and finished with 1626 hits. That's 100 hits a season, on average. Hardly what I would call extraordinary. His career batting average was .263. Again, pretty pedestrian. His highest batting average for a season was .333 and his lowest was in his final season when he hit a robust .187 in 97 games. This is a guy you want to put with the best of the best? Before you answer, consider this. John Olerud played 17 seasons. He has 600 more hits than McGwire and a .295 batting average. Would you put Olerud in the Hall of Fame?
"Yes, I know. McGwire hit 583 home runs. His home runs account for about a third of his total hits. In other words, if it weren't for that magic number of 500 home runs, this guy would get no consideration at all for the Hall of Fame. Even with that magic number, I wouldn't vote for McGwire."
It should be noted that I've never been a fan of the guy, so it wasn't based on that. His quarterback brother transferred from Iowa after one season and it gave me a bitter taste for the whole family. Doesn't mean he wasn't want of the most productive hitters in baseball history, though.
It should be noted that I've never been a fan of the guy, so it wasn't based on that. His quarterback brother transferred from Iowa after one season and it gave me a bitter taste for the whole family. Doesn't mean he wasn't want of the most productive hitters in baseball history, though.
He did smack many more triples than Mark did, I'll give him that (he did come up a tad short in the Homer dept. 38-583).
My point is that HOF standards are pretty low in the first place and McGwire is so clearly and easily way above them that his enshrinement's only obstacle is the steroid issue that will someday evoke more giggles than teeth-gnashing. (The preceding sentence was my monthly homage to James Fenimore Cooper. 'His Wordiness's' father started the small upstate New York community that became Cooperstown----and thus the circle of life rolls merrily along).
I'm simply interested in acknowledging guys who put lots of runs up on the board per plate appearance. It's that simple. That's what great offenses are made of.
I'm not interested in style, Jose Reyes is more fun to watch play baseball than Brian McCann, but at the end of the year, McCann was 1.5 runs better per 27 outs than Jose was.
McGwire put runs on the board at a rate that was among the best of all time---that's why I appreciate his career.
Put this another way, Juan Pierre had 204 hits, or 22 more than Ryan Howard did. Who do you want on your team??
Again I'm drawn to the fact that if you have but one talent (even though McGwire had strike zone control as well as power), massive, historic power is about as good as it gets.
Jenna Jamison has her one 'dominant' ability, one that is so singular that most people don't really care if she grasps the mysteries of, let's say---quadratic equations---or not. It is enough that she excells in her chosen field, likewise don't nit-pick Mark because of his (perceived) lack of hits.
I will put it this way. I generally go around 10 miles an hour above the speed limit on the interstate. While I know I'm increasing the chances of getting in a car accident and I'm negatively impacting the enviroment by burning more fuel at this speed, I do it anyway. This is against the law and I would argue potentially impacts more people and definitely our planet than some guy who takes steroids. I'm against laws that try to protect adults against themselves.
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