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Gimme A Break!
2005-11-02 20:56
by Will Carroll

That was the title of an email I recieved from a friend, someone I respect, someone who you probably read. On the heels of the Matt Lawton suspension, his comment was "So that was the guy we cared about???"

My response, I think, is worth sharing widely: "All-star OF who played on a playoff team? What do you want? Do we all only care about gotchas and the next Palmeiro? Will we need ever increasing names or do we just want to headhunt Bonds until he admits he's the anti-christ, shot Kennedy, and impregnated our daughters with his steroid-ridden seed?

"Really, what player SHOULDNT we care about and if I say, on national radio, "No, we shouldnt care" what does that say about me?"

I'll have more on the case, factually, in tomorrow's BP.

2005-11-02 23:22:12
1.   misterjohnny
Bonds impregnated my daughter? I thought the 'roids shriveled those things? Hmmmm, gonna have to keep my eye on him.
2005-11-03 05:17:52
2.   kcyanks1
Hi Will - You had mentioned that you had worked on the appeals process, which is how you knew about the case of the OF on a playoff team. Lawton, however, claims to have not appealed his suspension. So how can Lawton be the guy you were referring to (but for understandable reasons couldn't name)? Was Lawton's quote about not appealing his suspension deceiving, in that he did appeal the results of the drug test, but not the ensuing suspension (or something like that)? Thanks!
2005-11-03 05:44:39
3.   Will Carroll
kcyanks - read my interview on Baseball Musings. Much easier than recapping here. I address the appeal in today's BP article.
2005-11-03 06:11:57
4.   pieman
Matt Lawton seems like a relatively big name player. He's been around a long time and has had pretty decent skills.
2005-11-03 07:32:18
5.   kcyanks1
Hi Will - Thanks for the reply. I re-read your interview at Baseball Musings. You mentioned, "I was involved in an appeals process, very tangentially." I realize you also said that you didn't know who the player was in that interview, so perhaps what I'm asking can't be answered. But if Lawton did not have an appeal, how can this be the case you were referring to in the interview?
2005-11-03 07:48:50
6.   kcyanks1
Just to add, I will read your BP article later, and if you do answer that question there regarding Lawton's claim to not having an appeal, then don't worry about repeating yourself here. Thanks.
2005-11-03 08:59:45
7.   Another Tom
There is no way Bonds could have hid behind the Grassy Knoll with that giant melon of his!!

Will, I think an interesting angle going forward is how each team takes on these positive tests from a PR perspective. Granted, outside of Raffy most of the positives have fallen between the cracks PR-wise. They surely have outside of true baseball circles - only the Raffy thing generated any buzz outside of baseball.

But now we're dealing with players who, as FAs, are going into the market with the Scarlet 'R around their neck. Maybe Lawton isn't the best test case since he was coming off a very pedestrian season, but do you think the positive will hurt him as a FA? Not from a suspension standpoint since it's only 1/16th of the season. But from a PR standpoint?

2005-11-03 14:14:21
8.   bronxbomber7
Here's the extent of the steroid problem in MLB:

Carlos Almanzar
Rafael Betancourt
Ryan Franklin
Felix Heredia
Matt Lawton
Augustin Montero
Mike Morse
Rafael Palmeiro
Jogre Piedra
Juan Rincon
Alex Sanchez
Jamal Strong

And that bridge in Brooklyn sells for how much?! You will never catch or will never know the full extent of what stars, hall of famers, and good players used, unless they have the balls to admit it, most likely if they get a conscience in retirement. Don't count on it.

2005-11-03 17:08:52
9.   chris in illinois
Regarding Bonds's giant head, does anyone remember Eddie Murray's monstrous melon in his last years??

I have no idea what Bonds did, but sometimes people just get bigger as the get older (for those of you over 35, check out your senior picture and then look in a mirror...).

2005-11-04 10:26:52
10.   TFD
chris: Damn, etu?

So you really have no idea what Bonds did to get bigger? I know, I know we've never been able to prove anything ergo he didn't do anything, right? Yikes.

And I'm over 35 (most of the time) and my head looks exactly the same, it's just that my forehead looks larger as my hairline has receded.

How many homers did Murray hit? And how many of them were in the 'Roid era? And how many were right after the McGwire/Sosa era?


On another subject did you get to Gilead? Damn fine piece of literature.

2005-11-04 11:37:05
11.   nickelbag
I recall reading somewhere that Padres Manager Bruce Bochy has the largest hat size in MLB. He must be on the Juice.

I also recall from back when I lived in SD that former Chargers QB Stan Humphries had the largest helmet size in football. Must be on the juice.

I believe Will himself said in his book, that if we could tell who was taking steroids just by looking at them, then why bother with all the high-tech testing?

2005-11-04 13:53:26
12.   TFD
logic 101:

just because bruce bochy has a big head and doesn't do 'roids does not mean that barry bonds who also has a huge head/body/etc also does not do roids. (blue fish eat worms: all fish eat worms.) the bruce bochy argument is a straw man.

saying that we can tell from one person does not mean that we can tell for all people. i have a big head - - 7 7/8; that doesn't mean i do roids. (hint: you have to factor in all the other data points.)

also, innocence until proven guilty works only in the judicial system, not in the court of public opinion or the court of public personaes.

what we really keep arguing about is DEFINITIVE PROOF, which we're never going to have. Some people, like Will (not putting words into his mouth but I think I'm fair in this conclusion) say that without definitive proof we cannot convict. I say phooey. If that were the case we would convict roughly 5% of the people in this country.

both sides have good arguments, let's just stop pretending that the "Barry is a 'Roider" crowd is a bunch of A-hole/Jabba the Fat/tie-stained sportswriters (not meant to anyone in specific.)

2005-11-04 15:24:16
13.   RyanM
"both sides have good arguments, let's just stop pretending that the "Barry is a 'Roider" crowd is a bunch of A-hole/Jabba the Fat/tie-stained sportswriters"

Hmm . . . Will, writing on this very blog, implied that condemnation of Bonds stemmed from "statistical racism and chemical McCarthyism." I don't know whom to believe.

2005-11-05 08:36:13
14.   Will Carroll
There is evidence that Bonds used steroids. There are some defenses (a technical one about the legality and structure of THG and the ostrich defense) but I don't buy either. However, there is no evidence that he used these during a period where they were banned in baseball. There's also no evidence that steroids have an effect on baseball skills. Did Barry use? Yes. Does that affect how I think about him? Only slightly. Does hat size mean anything? Only if you're buying a new hat.
2005-11-05 14:27:23
15.   chris in illinois
Will Carroll:

"...There's also no evidence that steroids have an effect on baseball skills..."

Thank You.

I don't condone steroid use, but I do doubt any wild claims that they caused the huge offensive explosion in the 90's---I could give you 10 better reasons why offense spiked than steroids.

2005-11-05 18:34:01
16.   Marc Normandin
!!Shameless plug alert!!

So can Jay Jaffe if you read that chapter in The Juice

Sorry, had to do it.

2005-11-06 08:54:12
17.   chris in illinois
My 1.5 year old son doesn't allow me read books that don't involve Thomas the Tank engine or Elmo.

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