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Just a Thought
2005-05-03 07:39
by Will Carroll

Via Billy-Ball, Mike Scioscia is quoted as saying, "If Juan Rincon comes back and pitches 11 days from now, are the effects of steroids going to deteriorate to where his talent is back to his God-given level? No. He'll have the benefit of whatever steroids he took. I guarantee you, in 10 days, Juan Rincon does not become a mere mortal. I think he'll still be throwing the ball pretty good with the enhanced chemicals."

I haven't fully thought this through, but how about using the detectable of the substance as the suspension period? If Rincon tested positive for something, he'll be re-tested every ten days until he comes up clear. It would only count as a single violation, assuming his levels continue to drop and that there's no stacked substance. For a second offense, you test every thirty days, etc.

This is actually an interesting idea. Winstrol, the drug that was caught the most in 2004, has a short half-life (around a week) compared to 2003's drug of choice, Deca, which can stay in the body up to 18 months. Getting busted for Deca would be one heck of a suspension.

Comments
2005-05-03 08:39:28
1.   Tom
Does an athlete go back to their pre-steroid levels after he stops? I think Scioscia is saying that Rincon is still getting the benefit of the juice when he comes back from the suspension. I believe that, but how long do you have to be off the juice before you get to pre-juice levels?

Also, suspending someone for how long the drug is detectable in his system is a little arbitrary, no? That punishes stupidity more than drug use.

2005-05-03 12:04:32
2.   onetimer
Do the benefits of juicing continue as long as the drug is traceable? Do the benefits disappear once the drug is no longer traceable? Are the benefits of deca 78 times greater than those of winstrol? If the answer to any of those question is no, then there's no reason to tie suspension to lingering presence.
2005-05-03 12:29:38
3.   RickM
One of the arguements that our illustrious US Congress made to Chairman Bud was that the NFL suspends a player for 25% of the season, and MLB suspends for 10 games or about 6%, as though either suspension would be long enough to "clear" the player of the banned substances. Unless you've stopped a player just as he's started using, he will return with some positive effect from the juice.
2005-05-03 20:01:35
4.   timely2base
I've always wondered why this isn't more a point of contention. Forget about whether there are still any steroids in his system that he benefits from when he comes back, steroids helped him build strength and as long as he continues to work out, won't he still be stronger than he was before he started juicing?

Rincon may not be the best example of this as the benefits of steroids for him, and many pitchers, were probably more for recovery than for getting bigger and stronger.

But take a guy like Giambi. A lot was made of how much weight he lost last year. Sure. But he's still a very big man. He's still a lot stronger than he was before he juiced. He's still a power hitter who walks, as opposed to being what he was, a contact hitter who could spray hits and walk.

The steroid leaves the system, but the muscles don't disappear, do they? You stop juicing, you obviously won't stay as big and strong as when you are juicing. But if you continue a rigorous work-out program, you don't lose all of the tremendous gains you made unnaturally.

To me, whether he's currently doing HGH or not, Jason Giambi is still benefitting from juicing. Some may argue that his diminished numbers say otherwise, but if were just a good stick, little power guy going through what he is now, he likely wouldn't still be around.

2005-05-03 20:33:56
5.   Will Carroll
More I think about my idea the less I like this. However, it leads me to think about the idea of a "scouting combine" like the NFL has. What if we had a baseline for how strong and fast players were when they entered the league - real heights and weights, fastballs, first to thirds, bat speed, etc. THAT would be powerful information.
2005-05-04 08:35:33
6.   Mike Carminati
God Given? Check out how his K per 9IP figures shot through the roof in the last two years: https://mikesrants.baseballtoaster.com/archives/173606.html
2005-05-04 15:01:38
7.   Tom
Timely, that's the same question I have.
2005-05-05 21:09:27
8.   John J Perricone
From what I've read, the benefits of steroids do stay with you after using, with some drop off in strength noticed, usually cited as minimal. But many of the bodybuilders I've known are adamant that once you stop, your muscles do shrink to a noticable (for a competing pro) degree. These guys were just below top pros, (sort of Triple AAA), and they were using massive doses of stuff that wasn't nearly as sophisticated as the stuff guys can get their hands on today, (this was back in the late 1980's early 1990's).

If you ascribe the bullpen implosion of this season to the two years of steroid testing, (an interesting idea, but one I'm not quite ready to run with yet), then you might have something to back this up with. How many guys have seen a 3-5 MPH drop in the last two seasons (not just this year from last)?

2005-05-09 10:09:48
9.   Cris E
Isn't there something to the idea that the effects seen are somewhat governed by how you were using the drugs and what you were trying to get out of them?

Especially with pitchers I'd think much of the benefit sought would be recovery and maintenance after beating on the arm rather than straight muscle building. Rincon's modest physique seems to indicate muscle mass was never a primary goal, and since his move to relieving he's been throwing harder and more often, so I'd guess that the enhanced recovery (energy and healing) would be what he was after. Thus I wouldn't expect much change in his appearance or ability until he got a chance to wear down over the next couple of weeks.

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